And that is what is wrong with the world. Men want to be with porn stars (whose bodies are fake and airbrushed) and women want to marry characters from movies (whose lines are written by talented writers).
i think its a sadder that janas desire to be with a caring man in a movie (not a bad desire to me.. yes its a little unrealistic, but still a good picture maybe) are compaired to a porn star (a twisted desire that lessens a women to a piece of meat) can those two desires really be compaired? sorry if thats not what you meant but your comment really bugged me.
What I meant is that a character in a romantic movie is an unrealistic expectation, just like a character in a porno. I can't compete with John Cusack's character because it's a fictional character...women can't compete with porn stars because they are fictional characters.
As a society, I think both are equally as dangerous to relationships, but we only pick on the men who watch porn. Romantic comedies are female pornogrpahy in my mind.
Unreal expectations are unreal expectations, no matter what the context. Sorry I bugged you. :/
man i so disagree.. im not about to get into a "blog commet debate" with someone i dont really know though... its not fair because i dont really know your story or how you came to minimize sexuality to what it feels like to me you have brought it to- and maybe thats not even what your doing. but anyways... bummer
Ok, not to debate, but you don't think romantic comedies create unreal expectations in relationships?
And I'm not sure how I am minimizing sexuality...maybe you are missing my point here; or maybe I'm not saying it right. But I reread my previous comment and I'm not sure how to explain it any better, so I'm sorry we are miscommunicating. :/
k your right, its not really fair to just check out of the convo- sorry... your comment really did stir me up (and by that i mean piss me off) ... but i am hoping the best in that you hopefully didnt mean the message i got..and here is i think what it was(im still trying to figure it out some) BUT where i am at right now this is why i think...
i do think some of what you said is true... i do think that some women often escape into a fantasy of a man, in romantic comedies that are unrealistic, and then they do put expectations on men to match these fantasies and then get bitter because men dont. i however, dont really see myself as struggling with that. in fact- for me i sometimes think its good for me to watch romantic comedies in order to awake any forms of desires i have for men. because i (and i think a lot of women) when disappointed by men letting us down, we shut off to feelings and the desires a women has. so to see it displayed in a movie stirs me in a way that to me seems healthy... make sense?
so then you compare that kind of desire to porn. in doing that, it sends the message to me that all mens ultimate desire is for me to just be their sex object. and honestly i feel like i struggle with thinking that is all men want and that is all i have to offer. and at least every other day i feel confirmed in that belief. then it diminishes my worth towards men as a whole- and i really want to give up hope in them. i really would rather just be single my whole life then to settle for being a sex slave to a man... im sick of the nasty stairs and comments from dirty men. and i think i sell men short in saying thats all they are. and to me, your comment sold yourself short too... do you really think there arent parts of a romantic comedy story that you can live up to? men do have some feelings and emotions and are able to have those available.
so you see, by comparing a sick twisted desire as depicted in porn as a man's ideal- confirmed to me something i struggle with so much and fear. and i just dont want to give up all hope on you men... so help me out here.
I don't believe the desire for sex and the desire for a sexual wife is sick and twisted. It is healthy to want a healthy sex life.
From what I've read of your comments and your blog stefshaf, you seem like a really intelligent and thoughtful person. But I think you are making a HUGE jump in what you are reading into my comments. I never said I want a sex slave, nor did I say all men want are sex slaves. I said that when men watch porn, it creates unreal expectations of a wife. So my point is that men shoudn't watch porn because it's unhealthy.
It's not a perfect analogy, but I'd argue that romantic comedies create these same unrealistic expectations. Yes, I desire to be loving and caring and sweet and romantic, but my point is that no man can live up to a character in a movie. I want who I am to be enough for my future wife...I don't want to be compared to some movie character (like I assume most women don't want to be compared to airbrushed models or porn stars).
I think we need to be more focused on loving our husbands and wives for who they are and stop comparing everyone to our "ideal." That's where relationships seem to fall apart.
Is that making any sense? Really, the porn thing was just an analogy. I think men are gross too, and I don't think women should be sex slaves. But I do also think there is hope.
yeah, i just think that a porno is more then an "unrealistic" picture of a sex life- but rather a very harmful one. im no porn expert- but i have a feeling most of them arent about married couples getting it on. of course sex is an amazing thing and we are all sexual beings... but the sex in porn is twisted and diminishes the whole value of it all
its ok if you were just trying to make an analogy, but id just be careful with them especially in this realm- because i think it can send some harmful messages... and i dont think thats your goal.. so whatever "jump" i may have made its what i felt, so it counts for something. i dont think im really crazy in my reaction. and at the same time, i dont think you mean to send harmful messages- so i guess its good to hear how they are received and maybe give second thought to how some might hear the analogies you make, or whatever you communicate... so thanks for hearing me out
stef and steve thanks for hashing this out for me on here. im really interested in what both of you think on all topics and this one was not an exception. sorry if i caused so much strife - that was definitely not my intent! but thanks, stef and steve, for being so honest
I think both of you want one thing: to be loved and be enough for your husband/wife.
Stef, sounds like you don’t want to become just a “sex” partner for your husband and Steve, it sounds like you don’t want to be compared to a movie star from your wife.
But it sounds like both of you are too worried about finding the right one and them making you into that or you becoming that to them.
Stef, there is a really good book called For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn. That I would recommend you reading (sorry Steve you can’t read it…just kidding;)). There is also another one coming out-if not already out- called For Men Only.
thanks for the book suggestion- i actually have read it and think it is really great!! i dont feel like im too worried about that.. but i guess that might be hard to tell from just a blog comment or so... but thanks so much for the suggestions- your right that is a great book!
13 Comments:
At 7:55 PM,
ylmurph said…
Bob Saget is...
At 12:07 AM,
Steve Fuller said…
And that is what is wrong with the world. Men want to be with porn stars (whose bodies are fake and airbrushed) and women want to marry characters from movies (whose lines are written by talented writers).
God help us all. :)
At 8:40 AM,
stef shaffer said…
i think its a sadder that janas desire to be with a caring man in a movie (not a bad desire to me.. yes its a little unrealistic, but still a good picture maybe) are compaired to a porn star (a twisted desire that lessens a women to a piece of meat) can those two desires really be compaired? sorry if thats not what you meant but your comment really bugged me.
At 11:38 AM,
Steve Fuller said…
stefshaf,
What I meant is that a character in a romantic movie is an unrealistic expectation, just like a character in a porno. I can't compete with John Cusack's character because it's a fictional character...women can't compete with porn stars because they are fictional characters.
As a society, I think both are equally as dangerous to relationships, but we only pick on the men who watch porn. Romantic comedies are female pornogrpahy in my mind.
Unreal expectations are unreal expectations, no matter what the context. Sorry I bugged you. :/
At 2:57 PM,
stef shaffer said…
man i so disagree.. im not about to get into a "blog commet debate" with someone i dont really know though... its not fair because i dont really know your story or how you came to minimize sexuality to what it feels like to me you have brought it to- and maybe thats not even what your doing. but anyways... bummer
At 5:20 PM,
Steve Fuller said…
Ok, not to debate, but you don't think romantic comedies create unreal expectations in relationships?
And I'm not sure how I am minimizing sexuality...maybe you are missing my point here; or maybe I'm not saying it right. But I reread my previous comment and I'm not sure how to explain it any better, so I'm sorry we are miscommunicating. :/
At 10:00 PM,
stef shaffer said…
k your right, its not really fair to just check out of the convo- sorry... your comment really did stir me up (and by that i mean piss me off) ... but i am hoping the best in that you hopefully didnt mean the message i got..and here is i think what it was(im still trying to figure it out some) BUT where i am at right now this is why i think...
i do think some of what you said is true... i do think that some women often escape into a fantasy of a man, in romantic comedies that are unrealistic, and then they do put expectations on men to match these fantasies and then get bitter because men dont. i however, dont really see myself as struggling with that. in fact- for me i sometimes think its good for me to watch romantic comedies in order to awake any forms of desires i have for men. because i (and i think a lot of women) when disappointed by men letting us down, we shut off to feelings and the desires a women has. so to see it displayed in a movie stirs me in a way that to me seems healthy... make sense?
so then you compare that kind of desire to porn. in doing that, it sends the message to me that all mens ultimate desire is for me to just be their sex object. and honestly i feel like i struggle with thinking that is all men want and that is all i have to offer. and at least every other day i feel confirmed in that belief. then it diminishes my worth towards men as a whole- and i really want to give up hope in them. i really would rather just be single my whole life then to settle for being a sex slave to a man... im sick of the nasty stairs and comments from dirty men. and i think i sell men short in saying thats all they are. and to me, your comment sold yourself short too... do you really think there arent parts of a romantic comedy story that you can live up to? men do have some feelings and emotions and are able to have those available.
so you see, by comparing a sick twisted desire as depicted in porn as a man's ideal- confirmed to me something i struggle with so much and fear. and i just dont want to give up all hope on you men... so help me out here.
At 12:45 AM,
Steve Fuller said…
I don't believe the desire for sex and the desire for a sexual wife is sick and twisted. It is healthy to want a healthy sex life.
From what I've read of your comments and your blog stefshaf, you seem like a really intelligent and thoughtful person. But I think you are making a HUGE jump in what you are reading into my comments. I never said I want a sex slave, nor did I say all men want are sex slaves. I said that when men watch porn, it creates unreal expectations of a wife. So my point is that men shoudn't watch porn because it's unhealthy.
It's not a perfect analogy, but I'd argue that romantic comedies create these same unrealistic expectations. Yes, I desire to be loving and caring and sweet and romantic, but my point is that no man can live up to a character in a movie. I want who I am to be enough for my future wife...I don't want to be compared to some movie character (like I assume most women don't want to be compared to airbrushed models or porn stars).
I think we need to be more focused on loving our husbands and wives for who they are and stop comparing everyone to our "ideal." That's where relationships seem to fall apart.
Is that making any sense? Really, the porn thing was just an analogy. I think men are gross too, and I don't think women should be sex slaves. But I do also think there is hope.
At 8:58 PM,
stef shaffer said…
yeah, i just think that a porno is more then an "unrealistic" picture of a sex life- but rather a very harmful one. im no porn expert- but i have a feeling most of them arent about married couples getting it on. of course sex is an amazing thing and we are all sexual beings... but the sex in porn is twisted and diminishes the whole value of it all
its ok if you were just trying to make an analogy, but id just be careful with them especially in this realm- because i think it can send some harmful messages... and i dont think thats your goal.. so whatever "jump" i may have made its what i felt, so it counts for something. i dont think im really crazy in my reaction. and at the same time, i dont think you mean to send harmful messages- so i guess its good to hear how they are received and maybe give second thought to how some might hear the analogies you make, or whatever you communicate... so thanks for hearing me out
At 10:37 PM,
jmjana said…
stef and steve
thanks for hashing this out for me on here. im really interested in what both of you think on all topics and this one was not an exception. sorry if i caused so much strife - that was definitely not my intent! but thanks, stef and steve, for being so honest
At 2:26 AM,
Kalla said…
I think both of you want one thing: to be loved and be enough for your husband/wife.
Stef, sounds like you don’t want to become just a “sex” partner for your husband and Steve, it sounds like you don’t want to be compared to a movie star from your wife.
But it sounds like both of you are too worried about finding the right one and them making you into that or you becoming that to them.
Stef, there is a really good book called For Women Only by Shaunti Feldhahn. That I would recommend you reading (sorry Steve you can’t read it…just kidding;)). There is also another one coming out-if not already out- called For Men Only.
It’s a good book check it out.
That’s all I am going to say.
At 8:55 AM,
ylmurph said…
I think it's perfect that Jana is apologizing for Stef and Steve arguing....
Jana, are you giving up on blogging?
At 11:54 AM,
stef shaffer said…
kalla-
thanks for the book suggestion- i actually have read it and think it is really great!! i dont feel like im too worried about that.. but i guess that might be hard to tell from just a blog comment or so... but thanks so much for the suggestions- your right that is a great book!
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